1993 Chevrolet C3500 Crew Cab Restoration/Cummins Build

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JScott23

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Damn, I need to brush my frame down and paint it up like you did yours, luckily living in the south I'll never have to worry about the strong salt brines anymore.

Please tell me you're still going to do the CCSB conversion on the 94,

Yeah the frame turned out nice, i'm happy with it for a truck that's spent it's entire life in the Midwest.

And idk probably won't swap the 94 over to the CCSB frame. Reason being, the 94 is a former Arizona Truck completely 100% rust free CCLB, from the frame, to the bed, to the body, everything. No rust.

The victory red short bed I bought for it was supposed to be rust free but after driving 4 hours for it, (so I could save money by not painting it), I found it wasn't. It wasn't horrible, just not what I expected. Had a few dents and such. not pristine like my 94 is.. I figured I could live with it, grinded it down, POR15'd it, and such. The CCSB frame I got for $250, but it's also got rust on it. I could clean it up, but still. It's not the same as the rust free frame the truck currently sits on.

So after months of thinking about it, idk, it's more realistic that I just keep the 94 in tact. It's a pretty clean close to mint truck as it sits. So with all of that, I'd rather try an SAS over tearing it apart a perfectly clean truck to put it on a rusty frame using 7/10 condition bed.

So that decision leaves me in a position to....
A.) Sell the CCSB roller frame (i now have a rear axle for it to roll)
OR
B.) Find a decent cab and just build a winter daily driver with it. And remember I have a 350 vortec crate motor (that I previously used in the 94) sitting in my garage with literally no desired purpose. I also have a 4x4 4L80E, and a pair of NP241 manual shift t-cases.

I'll probably just keep an eye out for a cab/title unless someone were to blow me away with an offer on the chassis.
 

JScott23

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UPDATE:

This project has been a giant thorn in my side, haven't really had the money to finish it, and that has bothered me.. But things are starting to come around so here we go.

Got the entire frame painted gloss black, coat of KBS Rust Seal covered in Valspar farm implement black. Ran new brake lines, and reinstalled the tank using new fuel tank straps to replace the old rusty ones.

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So the tank is in, and the chassis is pretty much ready for the motor. Having a hard time finding fuel lines for the C3500 CCLB, so I'm just going to run stainless 6AN lines all the way from the tank up.

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But first, I wanted to make sure the motor wouldn't leak. It's a good runner, but the tappet cover, front seal, KDP fix, and rear main seal are just a lot easier to do now. This is my first Cummins I've ever worked on. So with no prior experience, it was a learning experience to say the least.

If you're new to these engines, pick up the B series cummins manual on CD and plug it into your computer while you're working. It will allow you to follow the step by step instructions (with torque specs) in order to re-seal your engine. Even if it doesn't leak, things like Tappet cover, rear main are just a ton easier to replace now.

First, I pinned the KDP (Killer Dowel Pin) and replaced the front seal, which was pretty straightforward. I bought the KDP kit just because it was easier to spend the $15 rather than mess around and try to find a bolt and make a tab from scratch. You could easily save the $15, I just found it easier to buy the kit with free shipping off ebay.

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As you can see, the KDP was trying to work it's way out. Caught it just in time.

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Next was the nerve racking part. Pulling off the injection pump. This had me worried for quite some time. After building up the courage to do it, it wasn't worth stressing over.. Pin timing and pulling the pump off these engines is not that difficult. You just need a puller for the injection pump gear. I bought one of ebay for cheap, but steering wheel pullers and other pullers supposedly work just fine.

NOTE: I did however make a rookie mistake. Following the instructions in the manual I set the engine to TDC and pinned the pump. Upon loosening the injection pump drive gear bolt even with a breaker bar on the crank, the motor just turned ever so slightly and broke the plastic timing pin inside the injection pump. Not good..

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After trying to fish it out, I talked to a very well knowledgeable pump guy who told me to fill the pump with diesel fuel, and shake it and pour it out. Did the trick and it saved my butt. So I would say, bust injection pump drive gear nut free first, then set the pins on TDC. Then pull the pump.

(There are many threads and videos on how to set a 12V to TDC, so I wont cover that here)

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Once the pump is off, you can replace your tappet cover gasket.

I originally planned to use my OEM one, as non-baffled billet tappet covers tend to spit out oil. However, after further discussion with some who've used non-baffled billets. I just figured I'd assume not have it leak, and run a catch can on the tappet cover ports.

(Picture shows billet tappet cover ports with 10AN fittings.)

You can see its a non-baffled cover (from Ebay), so without some sort of catch can, it's going to spit oil out of those two tubes. I planned to use the stock cover, but from what I've heard, stock tappet covers are just too prone to leaking even after replacing the gasket. There are billet tappets with baffled crankcase tubes, but they're about double what I paid for this one. So i'll just run this one with some AN lines and a catch can.

I also replaced the fuel filter with a Fleetguard filter while I was working on it.

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So.... after a rookie mistake, and a whole lot of learning, I finished up the reseal, slid the fuel plate forward, and might upgrade/modify that and the AFC housing down the road.

Only thing left to do is the governor springs (3K) or (4K with 60 lb valve springs), and buy a new power steering pump (from a 24V cummins) which matches the GM hydroboost system.


Additionally, before the motor goes in, I figured I'd do an upgrade to the steering shaft. Since my truck is a 93, the 84-00 XJ shaft works perfect as a replacement for the stock shaft.

There is already a write up on this, so I wont go into detail about how to upgrade the steering shaft. Figured it would be easier to replace now, and would work to accommodate my truck whether or not I am required to use the body lift. (if I have clearance I'll take the body lift off)

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Motor mounts I still need to purchase, but will be doing so in the next couple weeks. Outside of Autoworld/syndicate chop shop/making your own, I did notice an ebay seller is now selling motor mounts for the GMT400 trucks. Reasonably priced, cheaper than auto world. Auto world's mounts come with a poly isolator, which is nice, but much more expensive.

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Once I get the mounts and swap in the 3 or 4K governor springs, I should be able to put the engine in permanently, then I can start hooking things up.

NOTE:
Also ordered some adapters for the temp and OPS sensors. Sizes indicated below.

Temperature sender: 3/4 NPT to 3/8 NPT
Oil Pressure Switch: 1/8 NPT to 1/4 NPT
 
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rolla711

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Very informative. Just don't get discouraged take your time. You are helping the greater good with all of the information you are providing. I am sitting here feeling confident with all the questions your answering on what to do with the swap.

I need to look up the governor spring thing, I've heard about it just don't know a lot on it.

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JScott23

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Very informative. Just don't get discouraged take your time. You are helping the greater good with all of the information you are providing. I am sitting here feeling confident with all the questions your answering on what to do with the swap.

I need to look up the governor spring thing, I've heard about it just don't know a lot on it.

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Thanks! I'm trying to answer a lot of the questions that I've taken a lot of time to research on my own.
 

JScott23

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So progress since the last update.

Axle is in, new U-Joints. Chassis is essentially done (minus U-Joints/Driveshafts and E-brake cables)

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Then FINALLY. Put the motor mounts on, picked up a power steering pump and began the engine install. This time around, I pulled the core support to make things easier. Huge thanks to my little bro for helping me put it in, his first engine install, I had to remind him after that they're not all that difficult.

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So in the motor went.


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Then we made a test fit of the core support, fan clearance. Decided to move the engine back a little further. (I've got it about as far back as realistically possible) Then we marked the holes and pulled it all apart to drill the frame.

Once that was done, we first tried to guide the engine in with the isolators bolted to the engine. After about 2-3 tries, We changed gears and bolted the isolators to the block. Which made the install a lot easier.

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The next day, I bolted in the core support then installed the radiator, intercooler, AC condenser, and got everything put back together.

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The engine sits pretty good in there, fan is tight, but that's just how it works with using the mechanical fan in a GMT400 swap. I'm going to look into a different blade, but it's going to be tight. Just the nature of the beast.

I'm pretty sold I'm going to keep the 2" body. Once the truck squatted down, the clearance perfect with the 18x10 wheels. Also, the engine sits a little lower, which would allow me to pull the head with the motor still in the truck if I ever needed to.

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Then made sure the grill fit, and everything did. Just how I mocked it up, which is why I took so much time into mocking everything up.

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I'll get some pictures of the motor mounts soon. They sit pretty far back a little off the frame mounts even, something I hadn't noticed with any of the research I had done. So I'm going to do something about that. That way i'll feel really good about the mounts being very very sturdy and holding up to the torque of the engine.
 
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rolla711

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Hell yea fruits of labor and patience paid off. So one something I have been getting conflicting info on, is the body lift only recommended for 4x4 vehicles? If I stayed 2wd body lift wouldn't be required? Or is only required if you want a 4"in down pipe? Because I have read a while back that 3" will fit with the massaging of firewall.


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JScott23

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Hell yea fruits of labor and patience paid off. So one something I have been getting conflicting info on, is the body lift only recommended for 4x4 vehicles? If I stayed 2wd body lift wouldn't be required? Or is only required if you want a 4"in down pipe? Because I have read a while back that 3" will fit with the massaging of firewall.


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Body lift isn't "required" for ether 2wd or 4wd. 4wd just requires the countersunk diff bolt.

Now with that being said. There are a few factors into "clearance"


You have the flexibility with these swaps to mount the motor as far forward or as far back as you'd like. That affects clearance.

With a mechanical fan, you need it as far back as possible for the fan to clear. For those running electric fans, they can keep the motor farther forward hense opening up more clearance in the back around the firewall for downpipe/bellhousing clearance.

Additionally, the OEM dodge bellhousing adapter (NV4500/47RH applications) is much larger than the 4L80E adapter plate. The aftermarket 4L80E adapter is much smaller. The Dodge bellousing uses a drivers side starter, the 4L80E adapter retains the GM passenger size starter which again affects clearance.

For my application, I have a 2" body lift. I WOULD have clearance for the 4L80E bellhousing without the body lift, (Using Syndicate Chop Shop Mounts) but WOULD NOT have enough clearance for a dodge bellhousing without the body lift. I am not sure of other mounts, and can only speak to the syndicate mounts. First gen mounts will not work without a body lift. Auto world I know sells mounts and advertises that you can do a swap without the body lift just modifying the firewall slightly. (at least using the 4L80E) There are also mounts sold on ebay ($295) that use first gen isolators, but I do not know anything about those mounts.

So really clearance is determined by the three factors:
1. Engine mounts (height of engine)
2. Engine placement (forward/back)
3. Transmission bell housing adapter which are different sizes respectively.


I know of guys who've done the swap with mechanical fans, dodge bell housings and with no body lift, so it is possible. I do however know most of those guys have also made their own mounts.

I can only speak to my experience based on my mounts, and my engine placement. There are just so many combinations of mounts/engine position, it's hard to say whether or not you'll need a body lift unless we begin to discuss your vehicle, mounts, and intentions on fan/transmission choice. Also, if you're willing to really get carried away with a sledge hammer around your firewall, I'm sure you can make whatever work. I was not willing to break out the old sledge, and only bent back the pinch welds around the firewall.
 

JScott23

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So long overdue update. Quite a bit has happened since the last update.

Aside from everything going on with the CCSB frame on the 94, managed to keep plugging away at this. Got everything hooked up, except fuel lines.



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Found a deal on a flexplate/adapter/starter on one of the diesel swap pages.

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Discovered a few things that nobody seems to tell you.. NOT REALLY A BOLT ON and go type deal.... First, the starter doesn't fit so you have to trim it. You're tossing a starter core charge away when you do it, but outside of that no big deal. Then go to put the starter on, clunk. Hits the block, supposedly you have to TRIM THE BLOCK? Uh... no. Something nobody seemed to share with me. Also a few guys had issues with the torque converter fitting very tight eating away that front seal. Supposedly certain converters work, others don't. Downpipe clearance is tight with the GM adapter (starter on the passenger side) but it will work.

Overall, finding out this i said forget it. I'm not going to hack up a bunch of things just to make it all work. Sold the adapter for what i paid, luckily didn't lose anymore than my cost to ship it.

Threw the dodge adapter back on the motor. Have plenty of clearance, and this moves the starter back over to the drivers side.

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And this leaves the NV4500 and dodge auto transmissions as the remaining options. I really don't want a manual (in this particular truck), so i'm going to go with a built 47RH or built 47RE with a billet single disc converter.

After throwing up in my mouth a little with the idea of using a dodge tranny. I came to the realization, it's just the better route. Cheaper too. I can always swap to a NV4500 later if i ever feel there is a need, but ultimately i just don't want to hack up a bunch of things just to make the GM adapter work for the 4L80E...

The 4L80E and the 47RH/RE are somewhat comparable behind the Cummins anyways. Using the dodge stuff also allows me to do the swap without use of conversion parts. (Ex: if i eat up a flywheel i can replace it with factory replacement parts) - Same theme throughout the build, keep it simple.


Some people might not have a problem doing all of that to make it work with the GM trans, I'm just not one of them. Just felt this was worth sharing.

Kinda disappointing really.. these are the type of things i'd like this thread to help others with
 
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